Just as the Ft. Collins City Council was first learning of a recall effort against Ft. Collins Councilwoman Lisa Poppaw Tuesday night, Loveland Councilwoman Donna Rice was raising similar questions regarding Loveland’s membership in a controversial group that is the lynch pin of the recall effort complaint against Poppaw. see story and video
Wednesday Loveland’s City Hall was buzzing with rumors regarding Rice’s apparent knowledge that Loveland’s membership in Local Government’s for Sustainability would soon become a political hot potato. Rice’s apparent public attempt to inoculate herself from criticism while coaxing her Republican colleagues out into the open on the issue only created confusion Tuesday night. Not until those colleagues learned of the Ft. Collins recall effort the next morning did Rice’s comments appear to have proper context.
The Loveland 912 Project has been critical of the city’s membership in the organization but previous 912 concerns have not manifested themselves into any action by Rice on behalf of her constituents. On the contrary, Rice is an open apologist for influential developer McWhinney Enterprises and a city tax scheme that appears to run counter to the 14th Amendment of the constitution that guarantees equal protection under the law to all citizens.
Party affiliations of Loveland City Council members have traditionally been misleading as it was the Republicans of the previous council who voted for eminent domain for a private purpose, attempted to raise taxes and creating a two-tiered sales tax in Loveland where McWhinney is allowed to divert 40% of the sales taxes collected by their tenants into an entity controlled by McWhinney. Following the previous municipal election, the pro-tax Republicans on Loveland’s council gathered to celebrate the new lodging tax approved by the voters as an important victory.
In Loveland, the tail often wags the dog. This means instead of council setting the agenda and giving direction to the city manager the city manager, Don Williams, traditionally weighs heavy in political decisions by council like whether or not the city will participate in the Local Government’s for Sustainability organization. Therefore, it wasn’t surprising that no member of the city council chose to defend the city’s membership in the group but instead allowed Don Williams to respond to Rice by providing the city’s explanation of why Loveland is a member.
Further evidence of Loveland’s peculiar politics on council was Councilman Klassen’s inane questions last Tuesday to the city attorney regarding how far he can go in opposing anti-tax ballot initiatives scheduled for November’s ballot. Klassen, like other Republicans on the council, appears to get his marching orders from the city manager and left of center groups like the League of Cities both of whom oppose the upcoming ballot initiatives.
Rice appears to be independent of the others but whether she is independent of the recall effort in Ft. Collins is another question that needs to be answered. In the meantime, William’s skirt may no longer be wide enough for others to hide behind to protect them from criticism of the city’s decisions. Williams response the membership in the Local Governments for Sustainability only cost the city $400 is an odd argument. If the KKK only cost $200 per year would the City of Loveland join that group as well? Especially if the KKK offered software tools the city staff wanted to use in exchange for membership?
Given the political recall effort in Ft. Collins it would behoove every member of Loveland’s City Council to understand what groups the city is a member of and be able to articulate the city’s reasons for participation or on the contrary offer evidence of what they did to oppose membership.
Rice may have been fishing on behalf of the same people responsible for the Ft. Collins recall to see how her colleagues would respond. It appears that none of them took the bait — so far.
There are two errors in the Loveland Reporter Herald story by Tom Hacker that appeared on the front page of this morning’s paper.
The local rag says she raised the issue Wednesday but as you correctly reported it was Tuesday night May 4 at the council meeting she first raised the issue not Wednesday as Tom reported. In addition, she never mentioned the UN in her comments Tuesday as Tom quoted her but pretended she was responding only to constituent complaints.
Interesting stuff even with the rag quoting Joan Shaffer.
Can you confirm if Don Williams authorized Loveland joining without council direction? Probably not a big deal if he forgot to use his 9 headed rubber stamp called the city council but I would like to know for for S&G.
Why is Joan the focus? What about the hypocrites who joined 912 meetings in the past and now support this United Nations garbage? Why don’t we go after those cats?
I’m mystified as to why the previous poster calls this sustainability group “United Nations garbage”. As the articles make clear, it is a non profit, U.S. organization promoting sustainability and energy conservation.
Of course, I’m even more mystified by why the local 912 folk and Donna Rice feel it worth making an issue. What are the SPECIFIC threats to our liberty they’re worried about? How do they think this group can threaten our autonomy? Or are they just so anxiously seeking a political issue – any issue – to jump on so they can get press?
A tempest in a teakettle…and a royal waste of time …and in FC, possibly a major waste of precious tax dollars (if they succeed in forcing an election). I had hoped for better from the 912 people.
Is Donna really serious? Does she really believe the UN is deciding where to locate bike racks in Loveland?
I am tired of the knuckle head conspiracy theorists floating around and don’t know why Donna Rice wants to introduce partisan conspiracy theories into Loveland.
Ft. Collins can keep Stacey Lynne and her ideas about buildings in our downtown having the mark of the beast. As for the Reporter-Herald I must admit it was one of the most wacky stories I have read in years and I read the National Enquirer!
The Loveland 912 Project should avoid being associated with this stuff because it is going to end-up where the conspiracy theories about Johnson and Johnson products having a mark of the devil went — discredited along with the wack jobs promoting it.
Comparing that group to the KKK is equally stupid. Get a grip LP.com this is only a story about an old woman going batty just after getting elected to office. That is the real problem here.
One strange story, for sure. If this is the future of the tea-bag movement here and across the country, hoo-boy.
A 2-hour-plus tour around downtown Loveland that turned up all sorts of signs of UN infiltration? What are those signs? (the local newspaper let that crucial question be deflected). The 912 group doesn’t yet support this balderdash (allegedly), but carries a call-to-action blurb on its website. Reads like support to me.
And what’s with Donna Rice? Didn’t vote for her, but after she was elected thought: “OK, let’s see what she can do.” In the always-precise words of Frank Romano, holy crap.
The context of the recent Ward 1 council campaign — and the Fort Collins heebie-jeebies injected by Rice and her fellow travelers in conspriracy — now comes into focus and context.
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
The use of the term “tea-bag” by Mr. Benjamin demonstrates the type person he really is. The willingness of this blog to publish the term demonstrates what they really are: Racists, and bigots.
For crying out loud “Scooter.”
Nice way to dodge the real issues, by bringing up a non-issue (since I seem to recall part of the “movements” first big displays of outrage was to send tea bags to Washington, DC, and elsewhere).
And exactly how does using the term — which the groups used themselves at first — make anyone a racist or a bigot?
These are weird times. With people hiding behind names like “Scooter” spreading ideas they don’t have the courage to back up with their real names. Which, I suppose, demonstrates what they really are.
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
It is the “Tea Party” movement. Therefore, if you want to demonstrate respect and consideration to those who support it call them “members of the Tea Party movement”.
“Tea bag” and “tea bagger” are akin to “wop”,”kike”, “spick”, “greaser”, “dago”, “christ-killer” – just to name a few.
Its a private organization that receives direct funding from the UN and several questionable progressive organizations. As part of receiving funds for these bike rack programs the cities agree to Al Gore type green initiatives. The more I look into their literature and programs the more it gives me the creeps.
Here are some partners. http://www.iclei.org/index.php?id=779
Many of there other members and donors pages are offline.
For example from one of the ICLEI programs- We promote the use of non-motorized transport, not only as a tool for poverty alleviation but also as a hedge against the over use of the private automobile.
Scooter is mistaken. The vulgar term President Obama used was “tea-baggers” but Tony only called us a “Tea-bag” movement.
Maybe Scooter is a porn addict and doesn’t realize the term “Tea-bag” to non-porn addicted people doesn’t have a nasty connotation. Sorry but it is a little difficult to explain for those of you who don’t know. Ask a teenager or watch the episode on Curb Your Enthusiasm when Larry doesn’t understand the term.
Here is a hint, nobody can “Tea-Bag” with Scooter if he was neutered early in life.
Tony, the Loveland 912 Project allowed Stacy to come talk and share her theories but that doesn’t mean everyone involved accepts everything she and Donna Rice believe.
We in Loveland, Colorado believe in these 9 Principles and 12 Values and believe our trusted servants at all levels should govern by them.
If you agree with at least 7 out of these 9 Principles – and if you live your life by these Values – then we would like to invite you too to become involved in our efforts.
1. America is good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
Thanks, BlueBelle, for your explanation.
One of the points I originally tried to make was that the local 912 project spokesperson quoted in the newspaper took pains to disassociate the group from Stacy’s view. And you do the same. Yet the project’s website carries what sure looks to me like an endorsement.
Perhaps a disclaimer would be in order. Just a friendly suggestion.
Protests are as American as, well, apple pie. Thanks goodness we live in a land where they are allowed — certainly we can agree on that. We have a right to assemble and petition government for redress of grievences written into our Constitution as Article I of the Bill of Rights.
The anonymity issue remains a concern — chalk it up to an individual quirk. Those signing the Declaration of Independence didn’t use handles. And they had a lot more at stake than friends and neighbors exchanging views on a local blog-site.
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
If “BlueBelle” represents the 912 Project, then I’m not interested in the 912 Project.
And the 912 Project must be blamed for the demise of the United States of American because they stand for vulgarity and filth.
I find it odd that with all of the issues that face our city that we are wasting our time on a strange and unfounded conspiracy theory. I think if anything, it exposes the tea party followers for what they are, a strange radical fringe movement.
I also find it odd that the tea partiers know very little about what the actual Boston Tea Party was about. I think that it is one of the great ironies of our time.
Donna Rice should be ashamed for, at best pandering and at worst, actually believing the trash espoused by Ms. Lynne of Fort Collins.
Might I suggest we look into starting a petition to remove Ms. Rice from office. She ran on the speculation that Fort Collins politicans were influencing Loveland city government — all the while SHE is underhandedly pulling the strings to unseat more liberal envirnomental councilors. RIce has to go! We don’t need a double talking land baron 912′er from Wyoming stirring up problems here when one does not exist.
I share your unhappiness, Gil. And appreciate that recall in Colorado is an option. That’s not the case in many states.
However, it should be used carefully.
There were more than enough reasons to vote elsewhere than Donna Rice in the Ward 1 special election. My nieighbors disagreed, and she won. Some things can’t be explained.
Except that most often we get exactly what we deserve, if we’re not paying attention. Or the reporting and commentary we should be able to rely on lets us without information and editorial leadership.
That the veracity and goals of the local 912, tea bag, Glenn Beck movement here in Loveland have gone unchallenged by the local media is part of the real story — I do believe. That won’t change, till the newspaper does. Not much chance of that.
Gosh Mike. They don’t know the history? What a shock.
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
There were inconsistencies in Rice’s bio from the start. When I researched her, I found she graduated from Sheridan High in Wyoming, was in Wyoming until 2008, and did not have a law practice – in fact is not currently an actively practicing attorney in Colorado. Her husband attends the 912 meetings and now it’s apparent that her “constituents” are the 912′ers. Wouldn’t the rest of the voters in Ward 1 who voted for her be surprised to learn of their affliation with this group? And yet, we get the government we elect, so for all those Ward 1 voters who professed they would vote for Rice’s most likely opponent, next time get off the couch and actually vote. For now, you’ll have to live with the damage.
Hey, Tony: Learn to spell. N-E-I-G-H-B-O-R-S. Perhaps you should take time off from being the self-righteous, arrogant, ignorant, elitist, illiterate, ill-manner bore you obviously are, and learn to spell. And while you’re at, gently remind your parents of their failure in child rearing.
I think, Another Scooter, you meant “ill-mannered.”
A couple points.
1. I don’t agree with Rice that the United Nations is controlling our city just because they paid $400 to some sustainable development group, however, she is right to ask why the city is a member of the group and what do the others on council understand about it. Inquiry is not conspiracy.
2. Please read the letter to the Editor in today’s Loveland Repeater-Herald on the 912 project. Steve Goppert does an excellent job of providing you another point of view how almost all of us feel about 912.
3. People in the Loveland 912 Project are sincere, thoughtful citizens who would give you the shirt off their backs to help you or risk death to defend your right to speak freely against them (some already have).
Now they don’t limit who attends their meetings. You will see infamous local Dems and Reps along with mostly non-political people trying to bring this country back to a place of common sense and good ethics in government.
America has not lost the recipe for good government or for how to build a srong economy. The only problem is President Obama wants to throw that recipe that has served us well for 200 years into the trash.
You’ve made a fine contribution to the debate, John. A few points to your points.
1) Inquiry is certainly not a conspiracy — we expect nothing less of our elected officials. But if that inquiry is built upon some rather strange notions, then questions arise about the inquiry itself.
2) Steve’s letter claims the “tea party” movement has been misrepresented — and I understand why many members feel that way. But the fringe elements of the group have been, and continue to be, pretty nasty. And often the face of the entire she-bang. Until there is a clear repudiation of the lower elements (a la William F. Buckley) the sheen will cling.
3) The sincerity of the local organization is not a question for me; nor should it be for others who may happen to disagree on policy or politics. I don’t think, however, 912/tea party members have a monopoly on patriotism.
That seems to be a point of contention.
I disagree that President Obama has trashed the recipe for our success. The recipe is the one that has worked; it’s the beauty of the system.
Lots of government/federalism (Hamilton) or not so (Jefferson). It’s an old debate we’re not going to settle.
One last point — Bob Bennett in Utah. If he’s not conservative enough … yipes. How far right are we going?
Best,
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
At the request of the poster this comment has been moved from another blog topic to this one;
Greg Snyder says:
Everyone should question the expenditure of tax dollars for anything connected with the United Nations or the Global warming movement. Both have been discredited so many times it is almost sickening. I guess someone who took the money and ran from California instead of facing the problems created by progressive policies would assume anyone who does not embrace the status quo is corrupt. I bet you wear your sunglasses at night. It is amazing how biases can be recognised if you analyze the big picture. A gun toting progressive is the ultimate disguise!
Greg,
What part of the blog post do you see as an endorsement of the city’s membership of that group?
It is clear nobody on council voted for or against it so why are you angry at council members and not the ‘Republican’ city manager who authorized the city’s membership and defended that decision to Donna during the meeting (watch the video). He even tried to shut her down and act as if it isn’t an issue at all while her colleagues said nothing.
People are free to post their opinions here regardless of how the website contributors or publisher feel about their opinions so please don’t mistake their postings with a LovelandPolitics viewpoint.
As far as assuming we opposse anyone questioning the status quo is an entirely new conclusion. On the contrary, the people who sit on council and just abide by the staff’s direction without concern or question get most of the flack from this website.
Our story focused on the interesting timing of her raising the concern as it happened to be at the same time a Ft. Collins councilor’s recall was being announced. This perhaps is more an intrigue question but certainly doesn’t speak to the efficacy of her concern.
If your agenda is to re-elect the people who voted on city council for higher taxes, government subsidized housing, eminent domain for private purposes and continue exempting the city’s business “partner” McWhinney from paying the taxes everyone else is required to pay than you are certainly not a Republican by any stretch of the imagination.
The influence seeking crony Republicans like Don Marostica will not get a pass on this website ever. It doesn’t make us “progressive” just intellectually more honest.
A few observations:
1. Some people apparently supporting Rice’s challenge to the City’s membership made unsubstantiated, and apparently false claims re. the org. in question. There is no indication anywhere, for instance that “Its [sic] a private organization that receives direct funding from the UN “.
2. The organization is a membership organization, and Loveland is one of over 1048 cities, towns, counties, and their associations who are members.
3. Turning this into a debate over the Tea Party in my view detracts from the issue at hand as reported.
4. The issue at hand is that a City Council person is questioning the City’s membership in an organization, apparently over concerns that the City would then be “controlled” by that organization or funders.
5. Nowhere is there any examination of the latter fear…i.e. that the City somehow is being controlled by “environmentalist” or internationalist groups. What is the specific concern? That we’ll have bike racks? I surely would hope so, even if I were not a sometimes cyclist. If not this, then what the hay is this about? Those concerned should point to specific ways in which the City is being “controlled” by such groups.
6. Mr. Snyder seems intent as always on simply attacking the reporter here, rather than addressing the fundamental issue. In this he seems overtly partisan and disingenuous; and the latter point is backed by his complaint that the reporter here “embraces the status quo”. What a joke. It seems instead that Mr. Snyder is the one embracing the status quo.
7. I agree with some that it’s worth examining the City’s membership in, and support of, ALL groups, since it is our taxes used. That would extend to groups like the NCEDC, the Chamber of Commerce, and other good ‘ol boys clubs who support spending my taxes on their private pet projects.
Forget the international conspiracy theories. I’m interested in knowing what actually goes on in my town. i.e. whether my taxes are wisely used. And I’m personally far more concerned that nearly $600 million of our public taxes are being siphoned off by a private developer who games the system.
There’s a flinty integrity to this site that keeps me coming back to it.
It provides information, opinion and debate not found elsewhere. The reporting is more often than not top-notch; insightful and insider.
So.
Why not go public with the names of those providing the service, and require that posters use their real names?
It would be a change that could take this conversation to the next level of credibility.
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
Thanks for moving it Liam. I sure hope you are not connecting me with Don Marostica or I will really be pissed!
Response to questions posed by Tony,
In setting-up LovelandPolitics some 8 years ago now, the intent was to make it more like C-SPAN of Loveland where people could get information about what is going on in city hall absent the interference of personalities of the commentators.
Thus, we agreed with our collaborators on the following 2 conditions;
1. The website would not be as they described “a shrine to an individual” as many politically related blogs are today. We take this seriously as people often want to make the issue the reporter. Instead, we rely on verifiable public sources of data you can link to directly from our stories and verify the information being reported.
2. The website focuses on Loveland issues only. People have nearly endless internet sources available on national issues plus local media already covering Loveland politics. Therefore, we try and bring forward the information you cannot otherwise find in local media for whatever reason.
To the dismay of both main political parties in Larimer County no candidate is immune from coverage which is often unflattering.
Guest commentaries are welcome, however many times the economic and political power of people covered makes the contributors reluctant to share their names for fear of economic or social retaliation.
This is why LovelandPolitics first reported the demise of Grand Station 6 months before city officials even knew the project was falling apart — our sources at the time worked for McWhinney.
This is why we knew the mystery outside “fortune 500″ company McWhinney said would only come to Loveland if they could abandon their commitment on I-25.US 34 improvements was really an ag concern in Greeley that already decided to move. Our sources were NCEDC members angry about the public deception.
This is why a known con-man operating a phony lease-to-own scam in Loveland was exposed because the people he had taken advantage of didn’t want their names involved in the story but directed towards all the information we needed to expose the operation.
This is why the angry email sent to Loveland Historical committee by Councilwoman Johnson was shared with us and verified in city records, the volunteer didn’t want to be in the story.
We don’t take advertising dollars nor do we collaborate with any campaign or candidate ever. This gives us the chance to be an equal opportunity offender and focus on revealing the stories the local paper misses because they are too busy reporting the spin instead of researching the facts.
Regarding the blog, it used to get hundreds of postings when every comment was completely anonymous. When it changed to requiring a valid email address and sometimes comment moderation, the contributors dropped considerably.
We were forced to do this because one local politician would post outrageous and discriminatory attacks against himself in the name of other people to get sympathy. Thus, we need to check postings from unknown sources to be sure our readers are not being intentionally mislead.
Lastly, please consider no editorial in the Reporter-Herald is signed or is a name attached. Nor are controversial announcements or articles like the one announcing the change in the Editor some years ago. In addition, reporters don’t write the headlines and have complained to us in the past about changes made to their articles without disclosing who made those changes.
Therefore, names are optional on both our blog and news articles. Otherwise, we would need to provide a different list each time of people some of whom may not want to be identified.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Just a couple of points.
The unsigned editorial “we” in newspapering is a long-standing tradition. But readers know that the editor is responsible for the position. Or the publisher, as things go these days. A strong editorial position from a newspaper can be a real plus.
The reporting this site does is something else. It’s top-notch, and those doing the work (i think) deserve recognition. Connecting dots isn’t always easy. While your links to information is an added bonus, you sell yourselves short if you don’t think the context provided is important. And that’s just plain old-fashioned reporting. Still think those that provide it ought to be named. And honored for the good work.
As for comments, I’d like to know exactly who the “Scooters” of the world are. Maybe that would help explain why they are so uncivil.
Tony Benjamin,
Loveland
Harry,
Do you think the McWhinney deal happened overnight?
Tonight, City Council is going to approve giving your tax money to a private building owner so the owner can make that building look nicer, is that wise use of your money? Did that happen overnight?
I don’t know enough about the membership to take a stand, but I do know that there are some concerned residents that want to steer the City away from what they believe will be bad policy before it’s too late. I’m glad that a few more people are finally trying to get involved with how this city is run and I’m not one to judge where they put their effort. Maybe these same people will get a little victory here and then team up with you to make sure another McWhinney deal doesn’t happen again . . .
Conspiracy or not, all bad policies begin with good intentions. . .
As far as Donna Rice goes, she brought a resident’s concern up at a Council meeting. I believe they all received the same email with the resident’s concern, so I say “Good for you Donna Rice, for making an issue public.”
To Neil,
I don’t understand your “overnight” references/questions.; and I’m not sure which part of my note you’re responding to.
Re. “good intentions”; I’m sure you don’t mean to suggest that all good intentions lead to bad policies nor that bad intentions will very often lead to good policies; but in any case I suspect each of us is most interested in the results (the policies and subsequent use thereof). That’s why I think it reasonable to ask about the perceived HARMS of belonging to this sustainability group; instead of focusing on the claimed associations and fears about secret agendas. I think focusing on the latter muddies the water, and distracts attention from the substantive issues…allowing very bad things to continue while everyone gets distracted in the trivial.
I’m also glad people are getting involved, asking questions, looking for information here and elsewhere.
As for your kudos to Donna Rice, let’s be honest…the Council gets tons of public communications w/o bringing them up to the Council floor. Why raise that particular issue, one that just happened to be raised at the same time by (IMO) a rather nutty person in Fort Collins as a clearly partisan attack on a Council member there? Is that REALLY how you want your Council to spend their time? I think Rice is cleverly USING the Tea Party people…even though she’s as far away from their ideals as they come.
Throwing such inconsequential issues on the table is one clear way to distract the Council from fully discussing issues like the use of public dollars for private gains (which we both abhor), the lessons learned from the V-Net debacle, a much-neeeded audit of Centerra’s performance vs. it’s promises, etc.
To Tony B:
quite frankly, I agree with Administrator that this site is better precisely because it is not a shrine to some blogger’s need for recognition. I also think that, even while I recognize the downsides of the anonymity provided commenters, it is necessary overall. For one, as the Admin said, there is often actual, or threat of retaliation to those who’ve challenged the status quo. I personally know several individuals whose businesses were blacklisted (and they were informed directly of that) by the power establisment, following unappreciated remarks in the paper or public forum.
Second, all kinds of misuse can occur with the publication of names or other personal information on the internet. Frankly again, while I think it’s noble, I’m rather surprised that you’d use your full name. Perhaps you haven’t experienced the kind of abuse others have.
Again, I’ll grant that anonymous blogging (and the R-H’s whine line) allows anyone to say anything and not be held accountable, even for the most ludicrous / maliciously false claims. But the alternative (enforced public id) is unacceptable and fraught with problems anyway…which is why almost every site in the internet world uses the compromise of a regular username and (usually unpublished) email address.
Tony Benjamin: You get what you give.
Yes, Mr. Zip. Exactly. It all comes around. Which is why we should all give more, in so many ways. Whether we agree or not. tb
You missed the point. If you are rude to others, expect to be treated rudely. If you insult others, expect to be on the receiving end of insults.